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 HW100 consistenceny error 
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post HW100 consistenceny error
Hi everyone, and an apology right of the bat i hope i havent moaned too much in my first post but this is making me extremely unhappy and i am losing confidence both in the rifle and myself.

I desperately need some help please as i have been trying with little to no success to get to the bottom of this problem since i started competition shooting with my .22 HW100 last summer.

I had been using my rifle for just general target shooting at my club with no really noticable errors as such the occasional flier but at the time i had the harris bipod that tilts so i put it down to that, i changed the bipod for the nontilt when i decided to have a crack at the club/county comp, all shot with a full cylinder indoors using JSB jumbo diablo, out of 10 i would routinely get at least 1 either dropping into the low 8 ring or going high again around the 8 everything else was dead centre, so i started reading up on fliers, air rifle competition shooting, preperation etc, i then bought a £50 set of pellet/powder scales and a pellet sizer as i had already worked out that 5.51mm was the best fit and 1,030g was the right weight after going through a can of the JSB test pellets (different weights diameters etc) then after dutifully washing then drying(you should have seen the look on my poor wife's face when she saw me using her hair dryer) a 500 can of JSB 5.52mm 1,030g i then set about weighing and resizing the whole sodding tin, upshot of that was 54 pellets actually weighed the exact 1,030g as stated on the tin the rest were either over upto 1,050g and about an equal number under as low as 1,010g so i seperated the pellets into different weights, this was back in Nov i havent been able to get back to the club until this evening, and it was bloody awful. I put up 3 targets one for each weight of pellet, under, over and correct, all were fired on a full cylinder from a seated position same point of aim 1st target(the over) 1cm group, 2nd (under) none in the bull one shot in the 9 (@12o'clock) one shot cut the bull line (@7o'clock) the remaining 3 shots fell in a vertical line in the 9 ring (beginning @2o'clock last one @4o'clock) and the last target the supposedly 'Correct' one was a nice pattern if you like that sort of thing but 4 of the shots were at the corners if you will of the bull ring in a square shape the other shot was 9ring (around 7o'clock).

I also read in another forum that weighing pellets was utterly pointless as at the distance they are being used the weight doesnt really matter when you get down to the ,0..g area and the main thing was to ensure the best fit for your weapon, so i am at a total loss, i specifically bought a can of 5.52mm so i could resize the lot to 5.51 ensuring they would all be right, so what am i doing wrong please and thank you ?

One last thing if you all do not mind, as i am still new to airifle competition target shooting, is .22 not really used ? When i bought the weapon i did say it was for target and hopefully competitons, or is .22 mainly a hunting round.

Thank you massively in advance to anyone who might be able to help i really do both appreciate and need it :salut:

keep safe everyone i hope i put everything down that i need too, it all reads right to me but as my dear old dad always says 'Its that 2nd eye son' ;)
D


Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:26 pm
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SupremaWOCer
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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Hi Derren,

Pellet weight does make a difference to poi, but at longer ranges it becomes more noticable. There are other factors that are a play as well, like pellet drag and head size. There can be small differences in the waist of the pellet that can influence the pellet as well as head length. No body really goes that far unless your really serious about accuracy, and then they tend to use very expensive rifles as there are your precision shooters were tiny flaws in pellets really matter to get the best results that they need to beat there fellow competitors.
In the most part weighing and sorting pellets is all we need to do to get the results we want.
.22 is not normally used as a target rifle calibre. That said there is absolutely no reason not to shoot competitively with .22 over .177. If you know your setup and where you need to compensate on the reticle for range changes from your zero, there should be no differences other that trajectory when it comes to putting the pellet where it needs to be.

The problems you have could be down to a few things. Lose barrel as they can become lose. Pellet clipping the moderator on some shoots taken. It could be that your rifle just needs a good service to get it back to where it should be.
Look at the barrel and moderator before considering a service as it could be something very simple that causing the issue.

Digger.

_________________
HW100T .177 Hawke Sidewinder 6-24X56 IR 1/2mil dot
Gamo P85 Blowback Tactical. (4SAG)
BSA R10 mkII VC 0.22 (HuMa Custom regulator, silverfish custom Pellet guide and Huub Shroud) Hawke Siderwinder 4-16X50 IR SR Pro.
BSA R10 Super Carbine .177 Hawke Airmax 30 4-16X50
HW97KT .177 V Glide MTC Viper 10X44
Daystate pulsar OS .177 Falcon Menace 4-18X44


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Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:11 pm
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InterWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Check those things that Digger mentioned.
I'm guessing you have the 600mm barrel. This 22 barrel has given a lot of heartache to people around the world including me. It's a 6 groove barrel with a oversized bore. You will always be chasing it and never get it right.
HW refuse to accept they got it wrong.
Most people in the past put BSA Barrels on including me but I think you can only get the short ones now.
Guys in Australia have been replacing them with the FX smooth twist barrels with great results.
You have to sleeve the breach end to bring up the OD.

The quick easy answer is the HW100 FSB barrel. It is a 12 groove barrel and has proven to be very accurate.
It's a simple straight swap. A much lighter barrel. You will need to get the shroud and the larger barrel band.

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Gavin
HW100S FSB 177 BSA Barrel FAC
HW100T 22 shrouded BSA Barrel FAC
Blue laminated HW 97K 177 spring kit from Tony Wall


Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:17 am
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Thanks for the reply's and the tips chaps i shall try them all first :salut: one thing about the barrel where do you measure from for the length of barrel mine is nowhere near 600mm its only 357mm from the breech block to the tip of the screw thread on the barrel.

many thanks once again ;)
D


Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:03 pm
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Site Admin

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
60cm is the FAC variant, there's also a 31cm (K version) and 41cm (for 12 ftlb/16 joule full length version). 357mm sounds an odd size but my knowledge may be out of date.


Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:31 pm
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VunderWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
way too many variables. try to narrow it down:
scope off, gun into a vice rock solid, test pellets. if you cant make it group with any jsb you will know it is not you, not the scope, but the gun has the problem.


Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:09 pm
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InterWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
kris wrote:
way too many variables. try to narrow it down:
scope off, gun into a vice rock solid, test pellets. if you cant make it group with any jsb you will know it is not you, not the scope, but the gun has the problem.


I think you will find it is the barrel. The 6 groove has a long history of playing tricks. And not every gun will shoot the JSB. I know more will then won't but a lot of the 22 barrels like H&N.
That's what there tested with.

Looks like you have the 410mm barrel. 60mm in the breach.

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Gavin
HW100S FSB 177 BSA Barrel FAC
HW100T 22 shrouded BSA Barrel FAC
Blue laminated HW 97K 177 spring kit from Tony Wall


Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:53 am
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Thanks again chaps bit of a learning curve back in the day it was 9mm 5.56mm and 120mm so much easire to fault find :D , when i get back to the club next week i will vice her up remove the scope and we will see what we see, ammo wise would it be best to get another JSB test pack or shall i just go through the can i already have?

keep safe
D


Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:15 am
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Hi again, hopefully i have added the pictures of the targets so you can all see the carnage :bang: the second group on target 1 was a second 5 round group poa was the 6

take care
D


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correct.JPG [ 213.1 KiB | Viewed 1316 times ]
Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:25 am
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SupremaWOCer
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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Hi Derren,

Get some sample packs from eBay to test as it another way to rule out issues. If you can put it over a chrono at well so you can see what the extreme spread is as this can point to either difference in power via the regulator or pellet weight and size inconsistencies. I would think I may well be the former as the regulators can get a bit sticky so they don't operate as well as they should. It's just a case of going through the diffent things that could be the cause of poi shift.

Digger.

_________________
HW100T .177 Hawke Sidewinder 6-24X56 IR 1/2mil dot
Gamo P85 Blowback Tactical. (4SAG)
BSA R10 mkII VC 0.22 (HuMa Custom regulator, silverfish custom Pellet guide and Huub Shroud) Hawke Siderwinder 4-16X50 IR SR Pro.
BSA R10 Super Carbine .177 Hawke Airmax 30 4-16X50
HW97KT .177 V Glide MTC Viper 10X44
Daystate pulsar OS .177 Falcon Menace 4-18X44


Proud member of YCHJCYA2PDTHFH Club.

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Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:27 pm
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Will do thanks Digg, think i still have the bulk of a test pack from pellet test will have a looky ;)

D


Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:20 pm
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Hi

Did a chrono test today 10 rounds, cylinder was @150 results were - 11.77 - 11.74 - 11.69 - 11.83 - 11.72 - 11.46 - 11.78 - 11.90 - 11.62 - 11.75 all done in the garden at 20yds (forgot to grab target and its been raining since) the group was a 5p no fliers this time either. I have also checked all the bolts and everthing is solid.

Many thanks once again :salut:

take care
D


Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:41 pm
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VunderWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
man, at 20yards it should be pellet on pellet.

the regulator will not cause flyiers that you can see at this short distance. it would have to be 50fps up and down!
your short string looks ok to me, typical for a hw100 (not perfect i have got other guns which give MUCH more consistent results, i mean many replica readings when you chrony them) and i believe even that variability has got more to do with the hammer etc not the reg.

having said that, i would like to see a new regulator in HW pcp, one which has not a o ring and ball bearing what shuts the reg inlet.


Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:16 am
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
My HW 100 KT .177 was giving me really bad groups, even worse grouping with the silencer off. Eventually sent back to HC, now been returned with test cards showing air arms diablo giving the best results @25yds. Now to find out what head size pellet they used? My HW110 in .22 has been very accurate with 5.52 JSB exact. I do notice more misshaped skirts on the .177 compared to the .22. Air Arms Diablo in .177 seem to be awful for bent skirts, end up throwing lots away.

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HW 100KT Laminated .177, HW 110 .22


Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:21 pm
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post Re: HW100 consistenceny error
Hi chaps,

@Kris, yeah i know mate its not looking good if i am honest, i will save up the pennies and hopefully get the 12twist barrel which everyone seems to think is the business
@Shawny, how do from up north my friend, if mine was still under warranty i would have had her back in a flash, but she was at lelast 12mths old before i fired my first comp card and it was only then i started to notice the inconsistency, previously i had onlly been shooting at standard targets putting an average of 10 shots on the same spot if you catch my meaning, frustrating isnt it :) glad to hear you got her sorted they are lovely weapons.

keep safe and i will keep you posted when i get this sorted
D


Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:04 pm
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