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 hw 35 upgrade 
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NeuWOCer

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Unread post hw 35 upgrade
I have just bought a hw35 which upon checking s/n it was made in 1974 which makes it fourty years old .it cocks and fires beautifully no twang and easy to fire trigger wise but is down on power.It still has a leather washer fitted,I wish to change to a synthetic washer my question is the difference between fransfer port sizes any information would be helpful as this was bought so I can shoot in my garage as will be unable to climb the steps to my local upstairs indoor range and I am unable to use my other Weihrauchs any help please and thanks up front for all who reply

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[color=#00FF40]hw 100 kt .177 .hw97k blue laminate .177 .hw95 .22 / hw 35 .22 /hw40 .177/.Daystate mk3 .22 /Hw 35k .22/hw 35<f>.177 hw35.22/hw35 .22[/color]


Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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VunderWOCer
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
I could be wrong, but as far as I know the transfer port sizes should be the same. I'm almost certain Vortek in America sell an adapter for leather-to-synthetic seal replacements. Would be an easy thing to make if you own a lathe too.

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HW97K .177 (Konceptus kit, Airvolution glide)
Hammerli 850 .177 (Viper fettled)
Diana Panther 31 .177 (Airvolution glide)
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Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:01 am
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
davymole wrote:
I have just bought a hw35 which upon checking s/n it was made in 1974 which makes it fourty years old .it cocks and fires beautifully no twang and easy to fire trigger wise but is down on power.It still has a leather washer fitted,I wish to change to a synthetic washer my question is the difference between fransfer port sizes any information would be helpful as this was bought so I can shoot in my garage as will be unable to climb the steps to my local upstairs indoor range and I am unable to use my other Weihrauchs any help please and thanks up front for all who reply


I changed from a leather washer to a synthetic on my HW35, and it was a disaster. I ended up by treating the leather washer to a few days soaking in neatsfoot oil, and confining the synthetic seal and adapter to the parts bin.

I can only surmise that my rifles transfer port didn't appreciate the change in seals, because the piston was slamming into the the end of the chamber and the recoil was horrendous.

You may have more luck with your HW35 - I hope you do - but you may need to alter the TP size. The figures of 2.8mm, 3.2mm-1/8" and 4mm seem to be in my mind. I think 4mm is the standard size for the leather seal, and 2.8mm for the synthetic, but as I didn't want to start drilling/sleeving it to a different size, I didn't go any further.

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Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:39 am
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
My HW35 is produced in 2003/2004.
It's the synthetic piston seal version already of course.
I measured the TP with 2,8 - 2,9 mm giving a SCR of around 280:1
The wider the TP the lower SCR - not good.

Les Walker put D. R. Hughes "A handbook for owners of HW 35 series rifles" here on WOC - just search. Might be helpful.

ATB - Andreas

_________________
[i]actual:
AA TX200 HC - .177 / 11,5 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
DS MK4iS-S - .177 / 11,3 fpe w/ Delta Optical Titanium 4,5 - 14 x 44 AO FFP HFT
HW80 - .22 / Vortek HO - 20 fpe w/ Hawke Panorama EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO IR
WALTHER LGV 2012 CompUltra - .177 / 11,7 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
HW35 - .177 / Vortek - 11 fpe w/ HAWKE AIRMAX EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO
ZORAKI - WEBLEY ALECTO HP-01 Ultra - .22 FAC w/ RD Sutter 1x22x33
DIANA LP 5G
sold:
HW95 - 5,5 / Vortek HO - 15,9 fpe w/ HAWKE VARMINT SF 2,5 - 10 x 44


Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:35 am
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
Wow Les, I had no idea some ports differed that much. So far I have been very lucky with the rifles I have converted, but they have all been pretty much "vintage' rifles that put out much less than 12ftlbs. I'm guessing that had a lot to do with it then. I've bee doing lots of reading on transfer port sizes lately, and it seem like a real voodoo science at times. People experiment with different shapes, sizes and smoothness on them and still no-one seems to have a conclusive outcome, other than 2.8 - 3mm is optimum in most cases. Gotta love the boingers

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Happy Shooting ;)

HW97K .177 (Konceptus kit, Airvolution glide)
Hammerli 850 .177 (Viper fettled)
Diana Panther 31 .177 (Airvolution glide)
Walther LGV Comp Ultra .177


http://http://www.viper-spring-air-gun-tuning.com//

Member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH Club


Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:36 am
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
Is the '35 a .22? I did the same last year with a model of similar age. Bought the adaptor from Chambers and a new seal. I also changed the breech seal and polished and lubed the internals. It shoots beautifully @ 11.4fpe. However, if you're just shooting in your garage, do you need it at full power? Maybe a refurbed leather seal may be the way to go.

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Hatsan AT44, .22, 3-9x40. XS19 (Ddraig Goch tuned), .22, 3-9x40, Backdraft silencer. HW35, .22, 3-12x50. HW30MkII, .177, 3-9 x40. HW35, .177, 6x40. HW35E .177, 3-9 x 40. XS20 Venoman tuned .177 HW barreled, 1.5 - 6 x44. Hatsan Mod55 .177, 3-9x40 Bushnell.


Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:05 pm
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
Leather seal: TP-size 4 mm
Synthetic seal: 2,9 mm

Synthetic seal combined with old TP-size of 4 mm does NOT work favourably.

There is a guy in Germany selling brass-tubes to be glued in the TP thus reducing it to ~3 mm.
You may look and reade there:
http://wasana-airgun-tuning.de/shop/sonstiges/

It's the second position on the first page called "Messingröhrchen 4×0,5mm, 30mm lang für HW35, altes Modell."
EUR 1,99 / pc. plus postage.

But I'm sure you can find such a thing in GB too.
ATB - Andreas

_________________
[i]actual:
AA TX200 HC - .177 / 11,5 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
DS MK4iS-S - .177 / 11,3 fpe w/ Delta Optical Titanium 4,5 - 14 x 44 AO FFP HFT
HW80 - .22 / Vortek HO - 20 fpe w/ Hawke Panorama EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO IR
WALTHER LGV 2012 CompUltra - .177 / 11,7 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
HW35 - .177 / Vortek - 11 fpe w/ HAWKE AIRMAX EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO
ZORAKI - WEBLEY ALECTO HP-01 Ultra - .22 FAC w/ RD Sutter 1x22x33
DIANA LP 5G
sold:
HW95 - 5,5 / Vortek HO - 15,9 fpe w/ HAWKE VARMINT SF 2,5 - 10 x 44


Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:57 pm
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
Les wrote:
I changed from a leather washer to a synthetic on my HW35, and it was a disaster. I ended up by treating the leather washer to a few days soaking in neatsfoot oil, and confining the synthetic seal and adapter to the parts bin.

I can only surmise that my rifles transfer port didn't appreciate the change in seals, because the piston was slamming into the the end of the chamber and the recoil was horrendous.

You may have more luck with your HW35 - I hope you do - but you may need to alter the TP size. The figures of 2.8mm, 3.2mm-1/8" and 4mm seem to be in my mind. I think 4mm is the standard size for the leather seal, and 2.8mm for the synthetic, but as I didn't want to start drilling/sleeving it to a different size, I didn't go any further.


I have had the same problem on my Hoffman Premier HW35 and I have now gone back to the original setup. Just tlc, now shoots lovely very close to 12fpe with Hobby. Will not try to do anything to this gun, will keep it as it is and enjoy. Remain a mystery why modern technology cant make it better?


Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:57 pm
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
hi to all who have replied,I think that it possibly staying orginal except for a new Weihrauch spring that I have,I also over the weekend obtained an action from a Hw35k from 1992 plus a stock from the same era which when we shot the action it was 11.7 with JBS exacts both rifles are in .22 ,the 35k requires a full reblue job plus a enough bits to complete a bitsa when will it end

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[color=#00FF40]hw 100 kt .177 .hw97k blue laminate .177 .hw95 .22 / hw 35 .22 /hw40 .177/.Daystate mk3 .22 /Hw 35k .22/hw 35<f>.177 hw35.22/hw35 .22[/color]


Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:38 pm
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
My 35 chronoed at 10.5ftlb with the leather seal.
Has'nt been shot in a while, I re-lubricated the spring and piston, the piston had dried up grease all over.
Its grouping quite well, but needs to be zeroed in properly.
I'll measure the transfer port hole, before considering buying a new piston and seal.
What I,ve noticed is that Chambers do not stock steel spring guide but T.R. Robb does, is it better than delrin or nylon?
Also need a sling, any recommendations ?

Thanks


Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:38 pm
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
srv94 wrote:
My 35 chronoed at 10.5ftlb with the leather seal.
Has'nt been shot in a while, I re-lubricated the spring and piston, the piston had dried up grease all over.
Its grouping quite well, but needs to be zeroed in properly.
I'll measure the transfer port hole, before considering buying a new piston and seal.
What I,ve noticed is that Chambers do not stock steel spring guide but T.R. Robb does, is it better than delrin or nylon?
Also need a sling, any recommendations ?

Thanks


Delrin is supposed to be better, but I would think/suggest that if a nicely polished steel guide is used then you should be OK. You can also use a well-polished washer between the spring and the seal end of the cylinder to help the spring to rotate more freely during the shot cycle.

The main thing to get right with spring guides is the diameter - they should allow the spring to move freely across the surface, but there should only be a very small gap between the guide and the spring to stop the spring wandering off-line and making a noise in the process. ;)

I bought a Titan spring and a Delrin spring guide/top hat from Chambers for my HW35, and the guide and top hat were very poor fits, so they were discarded in favour of the original steel guide + a washer.

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Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:57 pm
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
I have a 76 era hw35.
Clearly it had the leather seal in barely doing 9.5lb after the seal was soaked in oil!
I changed it to the adapter and weihrauch seal it barely managed 9lb.
Having read somewhere on here that somebody had chopped the rear of the adapter off this got rid of half the weight and increased the stroke at the same time it shot up to 11.3lb for about 200 shots and slowly reduced to 10.4lb with ftt's.
This is done with a webley eclipse spring and nylon washers.
I cannot miss with this setup.
I have an 80 that is a pain in the ****, pellet fussy and hold sensitive.
I adore the 35 I think its the best rifle made for the uk market.
I've just ordered a Titan xs spring and it sounds mad but I only want a tad under 11lb its the reliability of the swedish spring I want when setup its less prone to dropping power after a couple of hundred shots and less susceptible to climate change than the standard one.
I think I'll give a vmach piston seal a go some time too.
And the 80 type washer and nylon spring guide.
Its never ending.
I only wish I hadn't sold my mid 80's nylon sealed 35 it was beautiful and fired at 11.3 with jsb's.
Maybe the tp has more to do with a it than I knew about then!!


Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:03 am
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
I'm always a bit dubious about the 11+ ft/lb HW35's and am thinking along the lines of deiselling, I've got a couple of emails from Chris at Hull Cartridge confirming that the current 35 is unchanged and produces 10.5 ft/lb in. 22 and 10 in. 177, Hull are also producing a catalogue this year making this clear as some retailers are claiming full power
My 35. 22 has a nylon seal conversion which dropped the power by half a foot pound to 9.8, mainly due to lost volume, I've kept it that way as the leather washer would produce pretty inconsistent results after oiling, as much as 13ft/lbs on one occasion due to deiselling which would then gradually diminish over 500 shots or so, but the shot to shot consistency was never a patch on the nylon seal conversion..


Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:51 am
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
As regards tuning, the Welsh Willy kits are nice, swedish spring and well fitting delrin guides to suit, popped one in a friends old ASI Magnum (who remembers those, lol), also bonded in an internal piston sleeve, the time honoured Araldite and washing up liquid bottle type :-) and very smooth now, at least if a kit is bought you can be fairly certain the guide will fit closely, Jim Maccari.s kits in the states require the guides and top hats to be almost screwed into the spring!


Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:59 am
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Unread post Re: hw 35 upgrade
11+fpe in an old style leather sealed 35 even with the best set up and a nylon seal would be dieseling.
The later rifle from the factory with the nylon seal has a 2.8/9 mm transfer port are capable of higher power which is why my later one had a higher power figure.
I much prefer the firing cycle of the older 35.
Kits are all very well but having had a top hat that broke after 20 shot's I have no intention of paying silly money when I can size the spring and finish it the way I want and make nylon washers to eliminate some mechanical noise.
Having just sold my self tuned 77k to somebody with a vmach kitted 97 whose first comment was that the 77k felt like it had half the effort to cock is enough for me to think I'm doing something right.
The xs spring is here and I'll be fitting it this week so I'll let you know how it goes.
Also toying with the idea of loctiting in a 4mm hollow brass dowell to reduce the tp to 3.1mm and see what happens to the power then.
I'd love a laminate kls one can but dream!


Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:28 pm
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