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Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
 Pellet sizer 
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UnterWOCer

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Unread post Pellet sizer
Hi all, thinking of getting a pellet sizer to get a bit of uniformity with my pellets specifically for my 97 and 98 which like 4.52 AA Diabolo fields and Falcon accuracy plus.Just wondering what everyone's thoughts might be on this.Thanks Jez

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Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:23 pm
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InterWOCer

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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
I have found that seating the Pellet on the bore rifling improves accuracy. You can make a simple seating stylus and give it a go.

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/toolt ... t%20loader

This tool works with all the Pellets I have shot so far. :)


Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:30 pm
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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
Sorry lads,
IMHO that's no good idea. :scratch:

With this tool you're going to deep-seat the pellets
thus increasing death volume,
sending your SCR (static compression ratio) downwards
and weakening your power output tremendously.
:bang:

From my knowledge and experience pellet skirt end should stay flush with barrel. :!:
ATB - Andreas

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[i]actual:
AA TX200 HC - .177 / 11,5 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
DS MK4iS-S - .177 / 11,3 fpe w/ Delta Optical Titanium 4,5 - 14 x 44 AO FFP HFT
HW80 - .22 / Vortek HO - 20 fpe w/ Hawke Panorama EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO IR
WALTHER LGV 2012 CompUltra - .177 / 11,7 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
HW35 - .177 / Vortek - 11 fpe w/ HAWKE AIRMAX EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO
ZORAKI - WEBLEY ALECTO HP-01 Ultra - .22 FAC w/ RD Sutter 1x22x33

sold:
HW95 - 5,5 / Vortek HO - 15,9 fpe w/ HAWKE VARMINT SF 2,5 - 10 x 44
DIANA LP 5G


Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:13 pm
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InterWOCer

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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
The proof in my rifle indicates that seating the Pellet leading end on the rifling is more consistent and does equal improved accuracy.

Regarding the volume concern, I suppose the volume is increased ( minutely ) however, I have not witnessed better accuracy by seating the skirt flush with the breech face. The difference on my rifle between Pellet skirt flush with the breech face vs. Pellet leading end " lightly " on the rifling, skirt to the breech face is .025 plus / minus ( IMP. ). It is possible to push the Pellet half way down the barrel which would drastically change the performance of the system. :idiot:

I would rather have the leading edge of the Pellet lightly seated on the rifling as opposed to violently impacting the rifling. The implementation of force is much more controlled and therefore more consistent with the Pellet starting from a better defined position.

H & N Field Target Trophy / .177 cal. / 8.64 gr.
Skirt diameter ( IMP. ):
.1795
.1815
.1805
.1800
.1785
.1805
.1760
.1755
.1740
.1815

Pellet overall length ( IMP. ):
.2345
.2315
.2350
.2325
.2335
.2325
.2350
.2315
.2325
.2350

Pellet head diameter ( IMP. ):
.177 to .1775

The bottom line is you do it your way and I will do it my way. :salut:


Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:03 pm
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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
Hi Tooltech,

Sorry – we were discussing different matters. ;)

Based on your pictures of the seating tool I had the impression you were really „deep“-seating the pellets by at least 1 ½ pellets-lengths or even more. Your latest information of the depth of 0,025” (approx. 0,635 mm) explains a lot and helped me to understand your position.
Not knowing which airgun you are referring to I did a short calculation on the basis of my (recently sold) HW95 transforming the values to your cal .177 / 4,5 mm indications.

system - dia 26 mm / stroke 80 mm / swept volume 45,1 cm3
TP-dia 3,0 mm / length 17,3 mm / swept volume 0,122 cm3
thus regular SCR - 369:1

Seating the pellets a fraction :!: lower (by your 0,025”) gives a SCR of approx. 341:1
So in no way bad – it might even be better than the “original” 369:1 thus (helping) increasing accuracy. :!: :!: :!:

I´m seriously considering giving your method a try. :idea: :idea: :idea:

To explain MY writing I did the measurements with my HW95 Vortek HO – cal .22 / 5,5 mm.
I was simply curious about the outcome (also in contrary to pellets with spread-skirts) and chose voluntarily(!) a deep-seating of 6,83 mm / 0,27” – more than 10-times your figure. :!: The SCR changed from 369:1 to 159:1 resulting in considerable decrease of power and accuracy – see table below showing the results of 10-shots strings versus 1 (one) each shot deep-seated.

Happy shooting and ATB :)
Andreas

Image

_________________
[i]actual:
AA TX200 HC - .177 / 11,5 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
DS MK4iS-S - .177 / 11,3 fpe w/ Delta Optical Titanium 4,5 - 14 x 44 AO FFP HFT
HW80 - .22 / Vortek HO - 20 fpe w/ Hawke Panorama EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO IR
WALTHER LGV 2012 CompUltra - .177 / 11,7 fpe w/ KONUSPRO M30 4,5 - 16 x 40
HW35 - .177 / Vortek - 11 fpe w/ HAWKE AIRMAX EV 4 - 12 x 40 AO
ZORAKI - WEBLEY ALECTO HP-01 Ultra - .22 FAC w/ RD Sutter 1x22x33

sold:
HW95 - 5,5 / Vortek HO - 15,9 fpe w/ HAWKE VARMINT SF 2,5 - 10 x 44
DIANA LP 5G


Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:41 pm
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InterWOCer

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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
Mmmmm, all good interesting stuff but the original question remains unanswered, what do people think of pellet sizers? Pro's and cons, type, cost, results etc.
Seating a pellet into the breech and thus starting the pellet head into the rifling is a form of sizing but if I'm right the original question(Pyrexia) refers to pellet sizing using a pellet sizer gadget before the pellet even gets near a breech.

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2x HW97KT synthetic/nickel .177, V-Glide kits installed, set-back triggers and Hawke Nite-Eye Digi 3-12x50 Map 6A Ret scopes.
BSA R10 Mk1 .177 XTX'd with shortened shroud and Tench reg. MTC Viper Connect with SCB Ret.
CZ527 .22 Hornet with BSA Contender 4-16x42 scope, mil-dot Ret.


Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:50 pm
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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
I believe that a Pellet sizing die is a good idea. Anything that increases Pellet consistency is a positive for accuracy. My efforts to increase accuracy of standard out of the " tin " Pellets was to see if loading procedures improved consistency and accuracy.

I have observed that my bench rest ( powder ) rifles respond positively to seating the bullet to lightly contact the rifling. I found that my HW97 / .177 responded in similar fashion. It is important to note that the Pellet must " lightly " touch the end of the rifling and not be pressed into the rifling for best results. In the photos of my seating stylus one will observe that the length of the Nylon screw looks like the determining factor in Pellet seating depth, it is not. The reason for the screw length is to afford room for one's index finger to retain the Pellet on the stylus during loading. What determines the Pellet seating depth is sense of feel ( Pellet contacting the rifling ).

Please give the aforementioned loading procedure a go, I am confident you will note improved group sizes. I intend to use a sizing die in conjunction with the loading stylus to see if further improvement is possible. :)


Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:22 pm
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UnterWOCer

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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
Thanks Joystick,the above is interesting and am grateful for the info but as you suggest more interested in a pellet sizer as seen on the bay. I have been measuring head sizes with my digital calipers and find a big variation in head size of all makes of pellet.I have washed and sorted pellets and although I am sure this adds to consistency,pellet size is the biggest variable IMO. You can often feel the different head size as you feed a pellet into the breach and a tight pellet will reduce muzzle velosity. So just wanted some feed back from those who have had experience with such a device.Jez

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:25 pm
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UnterWOCer

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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
Toolteck,I will give your stylus idea a go,you have obviously put some thought into this and it makes sense to me.Thanks Jez

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Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:33 pm
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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
A waste of money imho, I've tried them before I went to the EC i Plzen last august, they do not improve accuray one bit, neither does sorting them by weight, what may improve accuracy is washing them, if you get a dirty tin... Not JSB though, they are usually very clean!
I got 3 sizes (4.50-51-52) for sale if anyone's interested in trying for themselves, which I don't recommend ;)
You're better off spending that money to find out which particular pellet and size your barrel likes, and then buy a big batch of them (with the same batch number, because they differ from batch to batch)!

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STEYR HP Hunting .177
HW97k .177 *Venom Lazaglide
HW97k .20 *V-Mach Glide
HW77 mk1 .22 *V-Mach
HW98FT .22 *V-Mach Glide
BSA Meteor markV .177
FWB m65 .177
Zoraki HP01 Ultra .22


Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:25 am
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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
Sizers where a big thing many years ago. Many times, they actually reduce velocity because the pellet fit is now more loose in the barrel causing drag to be diminish so the piston doesn't have the needed resistance the pellet used to give to slow down and now it takes more abuse causing the shot cycle to be noisier. noise = internal damage in a springer. This also increases recoil which is never wanted making the gun more difficult for the shooter to shoot acurately.

The top championship winners that I have read, use JSB out of the tin into their guns without any of the fomentation fondling like washing, weighing and sorting. http://www.schulzdiabolo.cz/en/references/

How can anyone be that worried about accuracy over what a match winners would be :?:

There isn't enough time for all this frufa IMHO. I just want to shoot so I buy the pellets that are the best for my springers by testing and JSB always has one right up there given tight groups which is what I am after.

I don't know any shooters that use them. It just hasn't proven to be the way to go if you look at the expert gunners. They simply don't use them.

Richard


Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:24 am
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Unread post Re: Pellet sizer
Bsa interceptors gave 8.4 fpe in a .22 cometa I had been using.
Once sized they gave 10.8.
More importantly they went from a three inch spread to a 5p diameter at 20yrds.
I can highly recommend the stainless ones on fleabay at that time I had a 5.52 one I now have a 5.51 which they dont advertise but made especially for me for my mk1 80 barrel.
Still £13 including p an p 3 years later.
And a 5 day wait.
It saves me buying 2 type of pellet .52 & .51 so its paid for itself!!


Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:21 pm
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